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Nick
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Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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Location: Minnesota, USA
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 Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| silverfoxsteam wrote: | It's definately a 130/531, Gebruder Bing, c100 years old - doesn't it make you think eh?
What does the 'DRGM' on the cylinder signify? |
Stephen, what kind of books are you using? (I'd love to find some)
DRGM = Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchs Muster = German Reich Registered Design (I guess a trademark/patent  )
The 2 decals DRGM have stood up quite well on the cylinder and dynamo.
I can't believe we run these 100 year old toy engines, they should be in a museum!  |
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Spokesmann
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Anything 100 yers or more in officially classed as an antique.
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silverfoxsteam
SE2 - steam enthusiast 2 star
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Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Nick wrote: |
Stephen, what kind of books are you using? (I'd love to find some)
DRGM = Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchs Muster = German Reich Registered Design (I guess a trademark/patent )
I can't believe we run these 100 year old toy engines, they should be in a museum! |
I'm fortunate enough to have repros of Bing catalogues from 1898, 1912-15 and 1927-32.
Thanks for explaining the 'DRGM' bit. I'm sure you're right about it but I'll look into that a bit deeper, get some more background info.
As for the museum - I reckon the best ones are the 'living museums', which is pretty much what we as collectors have - agreed?
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Stephen
Silver Fox Steam
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Nick
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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I completely agree about the living museum... much more fun!
I received this information from a friend:
| Quote: | You are right about the DRGM, it does mean "Deutsches Reich Gebrauch Muster" a provisional patent mark meaning 'registered design'.
This logo puts the engine to around 1907-12, and the embossed endcap dates it to around 1900-09
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So from you, I have learned it is a model 130/531 and from him, I have narrowed the date from 1907-09. Making the engine 100-102 years old!  |
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Spokesmann
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Show just how old that overtype MM configuration is! I love the end boiler cap detailing.
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silverfoxsteam
SE2 - steam enthusiast 2 star
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Joined: 20 Nov 2008
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Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Nick"]
I received this information from a friend:
| Quote: | You are right about the DRGM, it does mean "Deutsches Reich Gebrauch Muster" a provisional patent mark meaning 'registered design'.
This logo puts the engine to around 1907-12, and the embossed endcap dates it to around 1900-09
So from you, I have learned it is a model 130/531 and from him, I have narrowed the date from 1907-09. Making the engine 100-102 years old! |
Totally agree about the endcap mark (1900-9), but the other trademark completely contemporary with it. Bob Gordon (Shire album's 'Toy Steam Engines') puts the trademark with the GNB in little circles (as per yours) at 1902-7. So your average is 1905.
The Bing trademarks got less elaborate over the years and of course the big change from GB (Gebruder Bing) to BW (Bing Werke) happened in 1918-9.
Good stuff this! I wish the other Nuremberg makers were half as well documented!
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Stephen
Silver Fox Steam
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Nick
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Stephen,the date has changed again!
That same friend has found it in the 1912-15 catalogue, it is a 130/531 and originally priced at 15Mk. |
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silverfoxsteam
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Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Nick wrote: | Stephen,the date has changed again!
That same friend has found it in the 1912-15 catalogue, it is a 130/531 and originally priced at 15Mk. |
Yep - it's listed in the 1914 catalogue, but that doesn't mean to say that it was new that year. 'Saison - Neuheiten' I don't think means 'new this season', rather sort of, 'special this season' and whilst these suppliments may of course feature new models, they may also have been used to boost sales of existing or re-launched models. Whilst it's tempting to assume that the 1912 catalogue is comprehensive of the range, and as your engine doesn't appear in it therefore it wasn't made before then, but I really do believe that it's not a safe assumption.
The GNB 'Bavaria' mark is clearly used at this time, but the endcap mark is an older one I'm sure! Without all the catalogues year by year, we can't say for sure when or for how long particular models were available. With that end cap, I'd still 'plump' for an earlier date.
I am enjoying this. 
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Stephen
Silver Fox Steam
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