Spokesmann
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Inaccuracies in the 'Bible'No, not about God only creating the world in a few days...
The 'other' Bible - Mamod - the story of Malins Models by P. S. Malins.
It's about time we had a definitive list of errors or inaccuracies or ambiguarities. Mikes thread on the SE4 prompted me to think what are the issues with this otherwise very fine reference work.
A few to start with:
Raised bases came in during 1948/49 for the MM1s, not as it states 1954.
Hobbies and Mamod SE4s had dark bases and dark painted engine frames.
Hobbies SE4s could be found with whistles and lubricators too.
Lets keep it factual, and accurate please. I have put it in this section as it will be a very good technical reference for all Mamod collectors
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Spokesmann
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Apparently SC4s were Hobbies only only . . .
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Spokesmann
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Keep them coming . . . . 
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MFSteam
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Is it right we should be publicly doing this?
I know there are errors as do most people but we are not about to rewrite the book.
The biggest problem is the Pre and Just Post War period. As we have discovered almost anything goes when it comes to specs and colours of engines. With out GM will there ever be definitive answer?
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Spokesmann
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I think its a valid topic, so much history quoted seems to be relied upon in it.
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MFSteam
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| Spokesmann wrote: | | I think its a valid topic, so much history quoted seems to be relied upon in it. |
Pictorial evidence is the way to go, it cant be disputed.
I know what you man about people quoting the book as gospel, it just surprises me that some have the attitude that "if it is not in the bible its not true".
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Spokesmann
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| MFSteam wrote: | | Spokesmann wrote: | | I think its a valid topic, so much history quoted seems to be relied upon in it. |
Pictorial evidence is the way to go, it cant be disputed.
I know what you man about people quoting the book as gospel, it just surprises me that some have the attitude that "if it is not in the bible its not true". |
I agree Ian, an example would be my pre-1950s MM1 box and its engine, the box shows a St Mary's Row address with a pic of an MM1 with raised base, apparently 7 years before the raised bases were 'supposed' to have been introduced in 1954 as stated in the Bible. I wont even begin to try and cover the ones in Toyshop Steam.
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newts
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I'm sure Steve used all the information available to him at the time of writing.
As we know Bowman & Mamod history can be sketchy due the the lack of hard facts.
Much credit should go to Steve Malins for writing the book & we must be respectful in pointing out inaccuracies & be sure that we are correct in a any alterations to dates/colours etc we discover.
The internet has brought collectors closer together & the topic has been discussed in much greater depth since the book was written.
This is also true of Basil Harley's Toyshop Steam, much information was lost at the time of the books writing.
Since then new info has come to light through the internet & collectors clubs etc.
Knowledge is good for all of us & to future generations of collectors, A little folklore is bound to creap in as we hand down this info from generation to generation.
Sometimes not knowing all the facts adds to the intrigue & makes for entertaining discussion as we all have different theories of events 
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MFSteam
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Information is always coming to light. I only recently found out that there are two versions of the Meteor!
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John Chapman
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| newts wrote: | | I'm sure Steve used all the information available to him at the time of writing. As we know Bowman & Mamod history can be sketchy due the the lack of hard facts. Much credit should go to Steve Malins for writing the book & we must be respectful in pointing out inaccuracies & be sure that we are correct in a any alterations to dates/colours etc we discover. |
I couldn't agree more Mike. As you so rightly say both Steve Malins and Basil Harley deserve respect and thanks for their work. However, any book is a capsule of the information that was available at the time of writing. As time goes by new information is bound to come to light and the sum of knowledge on the topic will increase.
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Spokesmann
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I'm in no way attempting to disrespect either author. However there are some who swear by the Bible or who believe everything they read in it proclaiming themselves to be 'the man when it comes to toy steam knowledge'. Im sure they were both written with the full information then available... Its just today perhaps we know a bit more, and hence the inaccuracies or 'mistakes' that have become folklore are better brought to light, so many arguments have been founded on ill-conceived or read information in the past have caused many a fight on other forums. Hence my very firm belief its good to talk about them here in an adult fashion.
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MFSteam
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The authors should be applauded for their work for without their efforts we would have no text o refer to. I for one know a couple of very knowledgeable people that should write books about toy steam. Unfortunately for us they wont.Basil wrote an article for Model engineer magazine, updating/correcting some of the information about Luton Bowmans some years after TSS
Steve had a fine collection of Mamods, most of which were never included in the final copy. Perhaps it was constraints of the publisher or editor, who knows. What would be great is if we could have a second addition using information that has now come to light.
A classic example of lack of solid info is the discussion I had with Steve at STIA this year about burners for the Twins. His recollection of conversations with his father was that it should be a two wick but GM could not remember! He was more than willing to accept the fact that engines could have left the factory with one wickers.
As collectors I suppose we are looking for the definitive publication detailing every single type/ modification/colour change, etc. It would be very interesting and useful for use but to the casual reader it would probably be very hard reading. what we have got with the bible is a very good overview of the company and its products and general time lines.
I like to get the facts right and my motto is "if its worth doing then it worth doing right" so information about these variations and alterations would be very useful to me.
Sorry if this post has no sort of order to it, but things keep popping into head
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Spokesmann
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A second edition would be most welcomed! The definitive information on the pre-war period is something which I think will always be elusive (and what makes it so interesting), but at the same time the insights we do have are both fascinating and fire the imagination, I for one have speculated on supposed reasons to many of the time worn questions of what, where and why . . .
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Manxman
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I have to agree with the comments. For me, the main model missing from the book is the TWS1. Dating from about 1984, it doesn't appear anywhere in the book.
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Mamod Collector
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Great idea for a thread Mike
I dont suppose there will be a updated version of the bible published
So looks like we will have to update it ourselves
I dont think this updateing takes anything away from the bible
We are just correcting mistakes with infomation which wasnt available at the time
Of the original publication
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Spokesmann
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Whilst on the topic here of respecting authors work, I can remember a thread not so long ago on another forum where I asked/posted as thread where did/why did Steve Malins get his collection sold . . . it degenerated into the usual rubbish and people were afraid to speak their true mind. Does 'Did Steve need the cash?' sound bad??? which was what I asked. I dont think so. 
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John Chapman
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| Spokesmann wrote: | | I'm in no way attempting to disrespect either author. However there are some who swear by the Bible or who believe everything they read in it proclaiming themselves to be 'the man when it comes to toy steam knowledge'. Im sure they were both written with the full information then available... Its just today perhaps we know a bit more, and hence the inaccuracies or 'mistakes' that have become folklore are better brought to light..... |
I totally agree with you Mike. As more information comes to light I feel that it should be published. New information as well as additions and corrections to any published works are surely to the benefit of all. I am sure no author will be offended if new information updates what they wrote in the past. As you say it is good that such things can be discussed on here in a mutually respectful and adult fashion. None of us know everything that there is to know about the history of our engines and all of us must be open to new ideas that might challenge our preconceptions.
| Spokesmann wrote: | | .... so many arguments have been founded on ill-conceived or read information in the past have caused many a fight on other forums. Hence my very firm belief its good to talk about them here in an adult fashion. |
Too true Mike. Sadly I remember an incident about eighteen months ago when Steve Malins first published a piece in S.T.E.A.M. saying that new information had come to light that raised bases for the Mamod Minor 1 were introduced as early as 1949. I shared this information with the members of "another forum" and was shouted down. I recall receiving a very unpleasant message from one "expert" telling me that I did not know anything and if I had read the "bible" I would know that raised bases were not introduced until 1954.
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Spokesmann
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GOOD POINTS JOHN,
I find that picking up new info be it images or written copy is like collecting another engine one has been after for ages. . .
If we all knew it, it would be no fun anymore. The joy is in the discovering of something new!
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