| Archive for Freesteam For collectors and enthusiasts of all steam engines |
| silverfoxsteam |
...and the next one!Here we are again but I need some help in deciding what it is!Before... 
...and after 
Ok - so is it a Bowman M101 or a Hobbies Lion? |
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| Spokesmann |
Hobbies or Bowman, I always thought the Lion had no overflow plug . . . | ||||
| JJ |
First and foremost it's fantastic however,has the engine grown or............has the board shrunk ?
  
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| Mamod Collector |
I would say its a Bowman M101
I think the Hobbies Lion came with a wooden base But so did the E101 
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| Spokesmann |
It could have either so I believe Mike. |
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| silverfoxsteam |
10/10 for observation there Jon! The 'after' photo shows it's final mounting board. |
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| silverfoxsteam |
Right then - the pros & cons of the M101/Lion debate.
Firstly, for those who hadn't heard of the Hobbies 'Lion' (and that included me until recently), this was a kit of parts designed for self-assembly of a 'simplified' Bowman E101 - 'E' indicating a wooden base. The only advert I've seen (see the Bowman circle website - http://www.bowmancircle.co.uk/page_1155070631750.html) shows it in this form, although it is claimed by those you should know, that it was later suplied with an M101 metal base. It had no steam regulator valve, level plug nor any decal. My engine, as I received it, bore absolutely no trace of a decal of any sort. The engine has what appears to be a sealed-up bush on the boiler end, just above the stay fixing nut, but if this was a level plug then it's lower than the level plugs that I have seen on the 101's I've come across! The lack of a steam regulator valve can be seen on other 101's (or are they really Lions? http://www.bowmancircle.co.uk/page_1153654515843.html) , so that's inconclusive. My thinking at the present time is that it is a Lion. The lack of any trace of a decal is pretty strong evidence, as although my little M158 was horrible corroded, you could still see slight traces of the colours where the Bowman decal was placed, and the bigger engine's base was no where near as bad! As far as the 'sealed-up' bush (if that's what it is) is concerned, can we say that the positioning was always precise? Can we be sure that, having received an order for some Lion kits, the Bowman lads wouldn't have used a boiler destined for a 101 if it was available to fullfil it? I think the answer to both of these is 'No'. I still need to decide at some stage - HELP! |
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| John Chapman |
I have had a look through some back numbers of "Bowman News" and found an article on the 101 and Lion in issue 45. The gist of it can be summarised as follows –
The E101 was first advertised in 1927 and the M101 was introduced in 1928. Neither engine had the steam regulator valve. The steam regulator valve was introduced in 1929 as an option. Prior to 1933 the 101 (and the M122) were available as a set of parts for self-assembly. By 1933 all M101 engines had regulator valves fitted and the E101 had been withdrawn. The article says that the Hobbies Lion had “several interesting differences” but sadly does not specify what they were. It does, however, confirm that Lions were latterly available based on the M101 – i.e. with a metal base. So we are really no further forward, Stephen, your engine is either a late Lion or an early M101. |
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| Spokesmann |
I thinks Lions were available right up to the end (1936) | ||||
| Spokesmann |
An M122 kit, now there's a rareity I bet. | ||||
| newts |
Lion-101, either - either , tomatoe - tomatoe, as with all things bowman there's little hard fact 
My first instinct was for a Lion, only the soldered up WLP gave me second thoughts ? Does this end of the boiler have a plate soldered on ? I think the thinner flanged boiler endcaps also indicate early models as does the armless safety valve (this doesn't differentiate between lion/101 though) Regardless of which side of the fence you land, it's a mighty fine engine & will still be steaming well in another 80 years After a long chat with a notable expert on bowman, i was advised to get the %^&*"$* decal off my 101 & think of it as a Lion. All i need now is an original cardboard box for it From my spares box & earmarked for a future project a ''New old'' Hobbies lion boiler with armless SV (unconfirmed hobbies, but best guess '  ' )
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| Spokesmann |
Wonderful colour that boiler. | ||||
| silverfoxsteam |
Thanks Newts - that's very interesting. When I got the engine it had a blank where the s/v should've been. After seeing your boiler there with it's 'old-style' s/v, I can see that the blank on mine is the hex base of the original with the centre hole soldered up!
I'm not sure what you mean by a plate soldered on to the end of the boiler. If you check out the photos I've posted in the restoration section you'll see the boiler-end and maybe that'll answer your question? |
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| newts |
T'was this pic that got me thinking, there's a distinct line (approx 3" disc) that looks like a solder join.
The central disc almost looks a different shade of brass. If it is a repair disc, then it's very well done & the edges feathered off well. I also have a niggling suspicion that some of the boilers were made like this, maybe it was discussed ages ago, not sure if i'm going senile though
MF will have the answer 
mine is smooth on the end 
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| silverfoxsteam |
Right, I understand what you mean now!
I had a discusion with Ian & Colin at STIA about this boiler, taking with me a photo of this end. My main point was to seek clarification of the possible WLP. I'm sure Colin said that the 'disc' was integral and designed that way purely for looks! His suggestion for the level plug was to carefully remove the solder and see what's there - I've not had the courage to do that yet! |
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| newts |
I've seen a couple of others similar to yours & think they may be a later (or early ) boiler as they've always had a WLP.
I'll try & get some better pics of my boilers without all of the reflections. I think they're only soft soldered, so should be too much hassle to soften it up remove the bush. |
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| Spokesmann |
Just to mix it up further we also have the issue of flat ended and domed ended 101 boilers . . .
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| newts |
Lets get the other end sorted out first
I'm led to believe that the flatter end is the later style, but please correct me if i'm wrong |
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| Spokesmann |
You are correct Mike.
The 101s seem to yeild the most variation possibilities. I will try and incorporate this info in the the stationary steam reference pages on Bowman when I can. |
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| silverfoxsteam |
My head hurts.
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| MFSteam |
Its going to hurt a bit more later when I put a pic up
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| silverfoxsteam |
Do you ever wish that you'd never started something?
Only jesting, I'm actually enjoying all this utter confusion. |
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| Spokesmann |
Excellent information d facts. | ||||
| silverfoxsteam |
Yes, sorry, I should have said 'my utter confusion'.
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| silverfoxsteam |
I'm seriously considering putting a Bowman decal on it. I think the weight of evidence (albeit circumstantial) is against the Lion.
Final opinions please! |
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| Spokesmann |
Its not the end of the world to put a Bowman decal on it Stephen, after all some of the main differences alluded to in Johns quotation are not specified.
Ian what image were you going to post? |
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| John Chapman |
I think, on balance, I'd go along with that Stephen. I think it is most probably a fairly early M101 and a beauty as well.
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| newts |
I'd go with bowman, with the possible WLP on the boiler.
I'm sure that some bowman 101's never had a decal, so i'd leave it off to keep everyone guessing.
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| silverfoxsteam |
OOOO - now that's tempting! The trouble is that NOT having it badged as one or the other upsets my sense of uniformity. It's no good, I'll just have to admit it, I'm a conservative (stressing the small 'c'). Apparently being a Sagitarian doesn't help - just because all my long sleeved shirts are on the right and short sleeved on the left (of the wardrobe that is and colour coded naturally), doesn't everyone do that? |
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| Spokesmann |
Id put a decal on it... | ||||
| silverfoxsteam |
Here we are then, after a lot of thought and consideration, with many thanks for all the interest and advice from forum members, I've decided!
It's a Bowman M101... 
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| Mamod Collector |
And a fine one at that
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| Spokesmann |
Always good too see. | ||||
| John Chapman |
A cracker Stephen and I love it
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